Norman Ohler wrote Blitzed and Tripped: Nazi Germany, the CIA, and the Dawn of the Psychedelic Age. Mark “Moose” McGrath and I asked him how a search for a mind-control drug led somewhere very different.
From Nazi labs to MK-Ultra
Norman traces how Nazi drug research fed into American intelligence work, including the CIA’s MK-Ultra program. In his telling, many Americans received LSD without their consent along the way.
The irony of LSD
Norman argues that LSD works against control. He says it increases neuroplasticity and helps the brain readjust to the moment. That irony fed the creative burst of the 1960s, from Timothy Leary to the music of the era.
Stories and flow
We hear personal stories, including a family connection to Alzheimer’s, and the strange meeting of Nixon and Elvis Presley. We also talk about the flow state that skiing brings.
For us, the thread is orientation and authority. Which states of mind a society allows says a lot about who wants control. Norman came back in December for Episode 31 (2024), on Blitzed.
This episode is not medical advice.
Who benefits when a society decides which states of mind are allowed?
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Written by Ponch Rivera with AI assistance in production. The full conversation is in the player below.